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in the backroom deals -- >> even movements can be cloistered. i remember a dinner during the george w. bush administration in southern california. it was norman lear and his wife, larry david, bob scheer. they were sitting around w eeping in their expensive soup about the fact that we were living in hell. rupert murdoch on the media. george bush was president. norman lear had his pulse on american culture for 30 years. why cannot figure out how to deal -- deliver a message that is important and happening? >> that is important. we can find messages that speak to people where they are. they can also have some satire like stewart or colbert. there is the idea of exposing with satire. it opens people's eyes to the hypocrisy and corruption of our politics. the problem is you want the captivating stories and images and vocabulary, but a lot of the colbert-stewart stuff is so absurd and over the top that people do not want to get engaged. >> that is where a large number of people get their news. >> i think the obama campaign was a pivotal point, bringing people in. now they leave. there is the pos
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